Roundtable notes, class schedule

[originally written Oct 26, just now getting around to transferring from my MDA.  these are much less narrative than my usual note-taking style!]

Credit only
Road to improvement came thru budget cuts couldn’t dist off campus
Schedule is plain bw just classes
New student cannot reg from offcampus anyway
Off campus is simplified
Increase in costs but huge increase in population
Lane had similar issues
Creativity coming from constraints
Administration buyin needed partially to have a directive
Went to magazine format
Was so popular that she doesn’t have copies
Some paid ads
They hadn’t even had internal ads
Making it interesting enough to read
Not showing all classes
Cocc took out prereq courses
Lane took out mult sections
Lane saw no impact on enrollment no complaints from students
Cocc did theirs in a shitty year
Put energy into noncredit schedule
Most people who came in cold had shiny pub
Cocc has amazing scheduling
Lots of push to web and phone
Staffing for advertising
People contact them
Quickly had to change site link to aspire in real pages
Using surveymonkey old people don’t like it
One email complaining about spanish welcome
Several sections in spanish
Barter with photo agency
Personally met with post office people show em the regs 6.3.4
And talk to counsel
8 month process
Two columns trimmed 40 percent pagecount mt hood cc

NCMPR 2006 summary, etc.

Update: Janelle Runyon of Lower Columbia College reminds me that I haven’t posted my notes from the course schedule roundtable. (They haven’t yet made it over from the MDA.) When the computer, the MDA, and an appropriate USB cable are all in the same general area, I’ll post those notes, too.

I’ve had a couple of days to let all this simmer in my head, so I think I’m ready to write up my take on a summary, assembling some meaning, and making some suggestions of things we (my employer) might want to try.

The thing I keep coming back to is the gap between the keynote and everything else. Near as I can tell, the techniques discussed throughout the sessions were aimed towards or designed for just the sort of middle-class audience that the keynote speaker was NOT talking about. I guess there’s not a whole hell of a lot of research or focus on marketing towards people in generational poverty…which sounds like a horrid thing to do, except that here we’re talking about marketing education.

The generational marketing session reverbed most strongly for me in this way. When I see her chart of key events and pop culture references for the generations, it’s totally obvious that it’s (mostly) a middle-class white suburban lexicon.

I was involved in some really good thoughtful conversations outside of the sessions, including over a few drinks. Somebody questioned the value of taglines in our context. Also some discussions of the futility of competing — can we collaborate more and get a rising tide to lift all boats? (This is particularly critical in my environment: 4 community colleges and 2 technical colleges all within rational commuting distance.)


  • ASU president’s blog (I can’t believe I remembered that!)
  • Census bureau poverty stats (approx 10% poverty in Pierce Co. Slightly higher in families with children 5-17. And of course that makes the effective poverty rate more like 20%.)
  • (Middle class) boomers are a good target for both high-end CE programs and direct mail. Hmmmmm.
  • It may be time to progress on my idea about 1st day of school SMS messages.
  • Oh, heck, I need to get Brian M’s PierceTV/YouTube page set up.
  • More people should present w/out Powerpoint.
  • I should find some faculty who want to blog. A chancellor/presidents’ blog might be a nice touch, too, although perhaps more interesting on the intranet.
  • Ken came up with an interesting alternative to student blogging, using our current approach of testimonials in combination with additional contact info. Do we have any crash test dummies available?
  • Send notes from new media session to Sally.
  • More email newsletters/cards! Theater, arts, CE? Do we collect email addresses from CE students?
  • I wonder if we should be segmenting our visual and verbal style more, and more consiously.
  • Ideas: CE “sample day”, invite-a-friend, coupons.
  • Who is talking about us, if anyone? What are they saying? How do we find out?
  • What do we do that’s GREAT?
  • Give fliers from keynote to student services, get a copy to everyone!
  • 68% of people in her research, when they deal with professionals, walk away not knowing what they’re supposed to do next. Is there anything that we (CR) can do about that? Better takeaways?
  • Is there any research available on how poor people get information? Any differences with overall stats? What’s a good media mix for transitional ed programs?

Whew. I think that’s it.

generational marketing

the four generations, like the four food groups

traditionalists (25-45), 75 mil

baby boomers (46-64)

gen x (65-80)

gen y, etc. (81-03)

we are outnumbered by everybody else. ::sigh::
“you are being held prisoner by traditionals & boomers.” imagine that. the “I AM the audience” syndrome. college catalog covers that faculty hate, students use as posters.

and by “old concepts of academic marketing” — if you have X, they will come.

pop culture references. go Simpsons! 😉 I wonder, do Y’s do everything as groups because they are still teens and teens do EVERYTHING as groups?

experiences and technologies. nothing terribly new here. cell phone as gen x?! not in the same was that TV was for the boomers? and “these kids are hardwired different from ours [brains]” not so much. or maybe us aspergers nerds are a generation ahead.
the herding cats ad.

more video. john wayne. what other movie was he in with Maureen O’Hara? (besides my favorite: the quiet man.) mcclintock? is it a comedy? [McLintock!]
traditionalists are grandparents of students. senior everybody. more history, more pop culture. (this looks like a much slicker version of a presentation that we had at a college event.)

70% of newspaper readers are over 40.

40% of tv/newspaper/print audiences are traditionalists; they fill the social/civic organization. oh so sad that those are dying. ::rolls eyes::

NYL ad.

boomers. ad. “I think you’ll like this.” yes, because most of you are. because it’s a spoof of the graduate, with hoffman of the dad.

parents of your students. returning students. “They like to think they’re still cool.” They were that way when I was in high school.

[the other day, we were watching Kids in the Hall. the “He’s Hip, He’s Cool, He’s 45” sketch series. heh.]

they think everything should speak to them. imagine that.

same media mix as traditionals. “you’re still a rebel.” most responsive to direct mail. hm. including reading their kid’s mail (and email). “she doesn’t know we read her email.” ew.

sprint ad: “but you are the man.”

the busy lassie ad. oh, they’re so very tired.

gen x. goofy ad with kitty and spaghetti sauce. cynical. (ya think.) nontrad students. stay at home dad generation?

they don’t trust you, because it’s all bs. “just fill my classes and shut the door when you’re done.”

no hype. prove it.

media mix: tv news on comedy central. 86+% are web-savvy. permission marketing, nothing unsolicited.

that’s not cynical. that’s stupid. chicken in vests.

practical side. but “they’re all about style.” huh?

ad with guy running away from work who goes back because he sees a cool car.

dropping landlines in record numbers. boomers got sexual revolution, we got AIDS. wasn’t that a line in a movie?

don’t buy warm fuzzy.

big list of percents of stuff done online.

pew internet study; cox-otto college web choice. job training & retraining paths are important. (isn’t that just a function of age?)

practical, practical, practical. that, and flexible. guy who works for them, came to interview, grilled them, made very clear that he needed a flex schedule to do stuff with/for his kids.

market death: ads on news, standing line, cookies on web, warm & fuzzy.

gen y. star of own show. (and how is that different from either boomers or your average teen of the last 60 years?)

starbucks ad.

ad making fun of hummers.

ad (with buffy’s sister?) supposedly making fun of boomers, bathtub cleanser.

pay attention parents because they’ll protect. curling parents: like the sport, smoothing the ice. (is that like “helicopter parents”?)

majority of students.

era of brands. again, how is that not like jordache when we were kids?

“how their little brains work” experienced by 20 what boomers experienced by 40.

they trust you, but they have to go with friends. going to disappoint faculty.

not reading. except when they are (on a screen). group events.

“which makes me feel a little better” (picking up subliminal fear messages from boomer parents?)

two-fers — class that’s also a service project.

TV, targeted; less than 10% are not web-dependent; permission marketing; produce their own digital content. [she needs to drink some water.]

buying spots on exactly the right show.

want instant response.

ad with water balloon fight in abandoned city. (xbox)

what is up with her saying “their little brains”

ad with 60s band following around some office lady.

wireless, surfing for fun. web w/cell. (really?) 2000 IMs in 30 days. males are mobile & hard to find. (neo)

wired for complexity.

like to keep their .edu email active.


don’t care about good grade. (I thought I read something recently about kids of the same age being really pressured to do well. this is the problem of oversimplifying.)
don’t choose college by site, but will use to cut from the list.

again with the IM.

making fun of hyperbole. group projects. type 1: safe & protected. type 2: your own adventure. (extreeeeeme!)

market death: no web service/messaging, no web complexity, traditional media.

1 in 3 do online art, photo, story, etc.

3D mental maps, spatial & temporal signposts.  (hey, maybe C is also a generation ahead!)

dilemma: branding across generations.

convince inside boomers to listen & be fair.  PODs for website.  (audience-based navigation?)

refs that they use.  (ah, richard florida)

q: could ncmpr put this up for downloading?  she can put it on their site.  can send DVD with vids.

new media

like “new market”, it’s actually about an old media, in part. one presenter is a tv guy.

thor is going to talk about blogging. (how meta.) he wants to have a dialogue.

the usual foofurah of booting up computer, etc.

shit. Web 2.0. “where blogs are moving towards”

everything you need to know: stacks and stacks of logos. web as platform vs. web as content medium.

focus on core piece: blogs. quote from Rebecca Blood handbook for the definition, and then Evan Williams. list of general characteristics. nothing I’d disagree with too strongly.

and then the why. promote, extend, showcase, enhance, articulate, invite feedback, share, etc.

use of blogging for publishing press releases, vs big-ass CMS. we’ve been doing that since 2001. not replacing but augmenting/extending.

official vs. unofficial.

page of screenshots — includes the Dean, CollegeWebEditor. the Dean rawks. (oh, and I was interviewed by CWE.)

what’s ahead? big slide with key trends (horizon report) — educause and ???. everybody says mobile devices, but they’ve been saying that for so freaking long that I just don’t believe it. mmmmm, youtube…. ah yes, commonplace in japan.

top 10 things. I just linked to that this morning! 🙂 I would love to get student services staff to commit to IM (or equivalent). ::sigh:: has resources, references.

TV guy is going w/out slides. good for him. real practical things to help us do our work better. news releases. have you changed how you do them? email, but still no response.

this is a problem.

they get 300 emails a day. how do you get your message? no attachments! better subject lines. but contrariwise, if you have photos include them. can be used on station’s website.

kid chased by deer, still pictures on website: 200k pageviews. (OMG)

some stories from colleges that get attention, although sounds like all research stuff. don’t overwhelm with text. if they’re interested, they’ll find it. keep it short and quick. (vlogs. oy.)

3 years ago they stopped holding stories for the 5pm news. just get it on the web. 10-4 is primetime for the web.

tv & computer getting closer together. (like the mobile thing, I’ve been hearing that for a long time. it’s hard for me to fight my deep native scepticism.)

if you don’t make 1st tier, might be able to get story to web.

they follow a few select RSS feeds. thor explain RSS feeds, poorly, in a few seconds.

questions about media attention? I wish I could channel Sally or Dale.

q: good days/times? most newsrooms have editorial meetings around 9am or 2/3 pm. 10 am newsconference work good. anything that’s practical, esp. if it has a photo. people who have interesting stories to tell. international stories that connect to international students.

q: picking stories that are tv-worthy? money issues can work if they reflect a trend, national scope w/local impact. might be good moments to use relationships with media people.

q: relationships? just give a call once in a while. “we have phones” — introduce yourself. like high school: you can only ask a girl out so many times. heh.

(of course, pretty much all the TV for us is regional out of Seattle. much harder to get attention.)

and then somebody from Pendleton, asking whether to send stuff to Portland media. if it’s a good story, it’s a good story. their cable uses Portland TV.

q/comment: two staffs, one for web, one for tv. back in the day, not too much journalism on their sites.

q: spokane tv site, watch editorial board mtgs. “goofiest thing ever, like watching someone getting a haircut.” sometimes we think we’re really funny. 😉 it’s an experimental phase. adding transparency to what newsgathering is.

q: what are THEY doing differently? looking for different kinds of stories? or? listening to viewers/readers more. used to be that importance was decided in the meetings (except emergencies, fire down the street), go out, get it, put it on the air. newspapers are in trouble. they did some wacky thing with the state & intel to be on the wifi at rest stops (or something). [oh, that reminds me: need to email DOT re: really nice rest stop experience on the way down.]

q: explain daily decision process. led by assignment desk people/person who has all the news releases, overnight police stuff, phone calls, etc. and they go through it. 3 stories that every station in town will do. news mgrs, reporters, photographers. collaborative. sometimes people fighting for a story. redo around 2:30 pm to review. [missed some stuff about the weekend clicking the low batter button.]

media needs access to experts. inhouse experts with blogs could be really helpful. Portland State sends them experts on the top stories of the week every week.

use departmental blogs for cherrypicking. outside of the official organization, outsiders may want to write about the college they care about. parent bloggers made an impact on schoolboard elections in pdx.

q to thor: in collaborative enviroment, how do you see blogging changing college’s approach to providing web site? every CC president should have a blog. (hm.) inviting comments. (!!!! I think have some links about particular experiences with that.) blogs cowritten by CEOs w/marketing. (not super-impressed with the answer. I think there’s something deeper, about how that “core” of the site works, how students use it, etc. but I don’t have the answers either.)

q: missed. trends, maybe? crime that doesn’t impact you isn’t important, but some stations think it is. lazy journalism. (that’s been going on since I was a kid, at least.)  electronic journalism is being challenged to do good journalism.

and then the battery died.  nothing else more to report, really.  some good chitchat over the break.  tool called kidblog?  for super-simple blogging.

morning comments

Portland CC president.  lots of internal chitchat type stuff.  honestly? not really paying attention.  it’s early, and the fog is just burning off.

his story of going to a CC in Michigan, fairly amusing.

new markets

(or, damn boomers, still.)

NYT article on CC’s & retirees.

most people won’t be retiring. he’s including volunteering work as work.

the usual demographic stuff: americans are getting older. 30-ish% of Pac NW population will be boomers. fewer younger workers.

[okay, just so y’all know where I am on this…. I am 32 years old, right in the heart of Gen X. I have been hearing about the boomers for my entire life. it’s like living in the vicinity of a gravity well.]

values of boomers. “entitlement”! heh.

missed something. programs that are more holistic, for people planning the next phases of their lives. not just jobs, but also civic engagement. interesting. pointed out handout photocopy of brochure.

financial calculator. opportunity to sit down and think about finances, actual readiness for retirement, because most people haven’t done it. most workshops have a vested interest in selling something, and they don’t. good point.

they use a “loaned executive” program, like United Way!

lots of partnerships.

used by some companies to get people to retire early. hm.

“libraries for the future”?

don’t have the money to offer it to the public; now just through employers. looking for $$$ through foundations.

place to gather — build social networks. (as an alternative to the workplace.)

25% of 77 million people (over 65? boomers?) will go back to school at some point.

every 8 seconds, another boomer turns 60. 2 weeks ago the 2nd presenter hit that number himself. “maybe you had had this experience too” getting AARP letter when turning 50. [oh, no, of course a boomer couldn’t be an old person. ::rolls eyes::]

“how elders will save the world” (recent book title)

separate initiative from their existing senior classes or community education.  (do the folks working in that feel snubbed?)  again, using outsiders.  new classes charge twice as much. “workshops”  focus on luxury education, as far as I can tell.  (of course rich boomers get better food than the plebes.)

“high touch” — so…what this morning’s presenter was talking about, with the needs of students getting out of generational poverty, but who gets that treatment? people who have time and money to take these sorts of workshops.  I find that troubling.

one-day: $120; half-day: $60.  (usually)  concludes with reception.  since viticulture center, includes wine.

marketing: schedule, incl. CE; direct mail; web; email newsletters becoming more of their primary marketing; and of course word of mouth.  branded separately from the rest of the college.

q: where do they get email lists? students on registration, so building slowly.  students want to be connected in this way.

q: who do you see as competition? willamette u is doing something similar.  (I almost went there.)  elderhostel.

q: “our class schedule, while we still have it” — go further? he’s not in charge anymore.  somebody will be talking about it at the roundtable.  (I’ll be at that and hopefully have a good summation.)

ranting on writing

this guy sat next to me at lunch. spurred a good chat about legalese & forms, etc.

not going to be as formal or professional as anything else. “the jello of presentations”

writing is like talking which is like breathing. (if you skip the talking bit, I feel the same way.)

why don’t more admissions/higher ed marketers write like people?


mention of Cluetrain Manifesto. “way we should be thinking right now.” conversation, etc.

1st ever powerpoint “proud to leap forward into the mid-90s”

liebling quote. funny.

noel coward. “never bore the living hell out of it [the public]”

linus pauling “best way to have a good idea is to have lots”

robert altman “playing it safe isn’t even playing”

have you ever looked at lots of admissions publications at once? totally rocking “suck factor” graph.

all sound the same. selling the same thing. you have 15 seconds to say pretty much the same thing as everybody else.

but also not taking risks, over-reliance on focus groups.

exercise: You’ll get the classes you need for not too much money without having to travel too far. (no use of the trite phrases)

the research you’re getting tells you that people want just information, no hype. problem is most research is crap. good at telling what people say, but not what they mean. most people haven’t seen enough good stuff to know what good stuff is.

myspace, youtube. making connections. [Ken had an incredibly good idea just before lunch, which I think we should give a shot.]

“excellence”? Icky. what’s a human way to demonstrate excellence?

some examples.

stuff he wrote for Reed. (very Reed-ish, definitely. hyper-clever. sort of the opposite group from the stories this morning. also: holy crap, is he going to read all of that?!)

great design is more important for capturing; then the writing can involve. interesting point. cute piece. (is it terrible for me to admit that the super-typical UPS viewbook of brick buildings & leafy trees was what propelled me to apply there? oh, and their then very-late application deadline.) dean (? pres?) threw them into the wall.

using 1st person. nobody does it, but it’s the most authentic voice.

“you don’t need to give a roadmap to someone who already knows the way.” (hmmmm.)

OSU text in 1st person; interestly, sort of a fiction-like anonymous narrator. Pretty good stuff, really. I like the idea. he used their tagline stuff well.

line fed through the audience. silly. but useful: what does all this have to do with US?

Portland CC. mentions the hell that is our incredibly broad audience. again, sharp clever writing. we have some sharp clever people, maybe we should use that more.

a story that’s more about your partners in the conversation than it is about you.

what do the humans attending your school hope to find?

“the complete secrets of creativity, free of charge”

emergent properties (koestler?)

points where the lines intersect, where lines are everything you’re working with.

bad writers borrow great writers steal; the hemingway classic

to explain is to destroy – goethe

wc fields to finish.

q: how do you deal with administration that gets scared by wacky ideas? compromising photos? everybody thinks they’re a writer.  if you have an edgy written message, don’t show it to anybody until it’s been designed.  “big dramatic stupidness helps too”

q: writing for OSHU foundation?  very easy because so much cool stuff was going on.

[if you liked this, you’ll like Attack of the Zombie Copy!]

reputation mgmt

on the break I thanked the previous presenter, talked to Ken and (?) from Kwantlen, called C on the phone.

came in late while I got another cup of tea.

I’m feeling sceptical about this presentation, because the schedule made it sound like this might turn into a vendor pitch.

hathaway shirt guy 🙂 is talking about crisis mgmt, starting with Tylenol, which I just barely remember. and now nobody trust any damn corporation.

“gut feeling” — he talks about people getting it from TV, print, radio. (our research has said person-to-person. and what about the web?!)

information gathering preferences by age. the kids nowadays don’t watch tv, read the paper, or listen to the radio (at least not for news). and he uses “echo boomers”

ah, now we get the web. um, his numbers on the screen contradict his spoken words.
“blogs have become huge in the last several years” — wow, look at me. 🙂 being all huge & sh!t.

in crisis mgmt: “nothing like this is going to happen to them” pretty typical psychology, really.

proactive approach to crisis communications? ah, so that’s the idea of where reputation mgmt comes in.

issue identification, proactive response, rules of behavior, social dues strategy, communications mgmt.

his slides are lousy. way too many words, and he reads from the slides too much. (despite having a pretty little macbook)

example of Tillamook cheese people. 24 areas of interest, from customer trends to manure & odor control; prioritize.

and CHANGES based on that research, getting ahead of what people might freak out about in the future.

do practices match stated values?

missed some stuff while I was checking work email. of course, if he distributes slides, it’ll be pretty much the same thing.

imagine that: listening to people who you effect, and taking actions based on what you hear, gives you a better reputation.

q&a now or later? ::crickets::

cuter presentation (to go with blond woman) — media fragmentation.

ad effectiveness declining & cost is going up.

trust in media is really low, esp. in Oregon apparently. people get through fragmentation & lack of trust by turning to people they know & trust.

HBR paraphrase: make your loyal customers into your marketing dept.

value of word of mouth has gone up insanely since the last 70s. (67% to 92%)

stats she shows look a lot like our survey results.

she skipped what looked like a really interesting slide.

WOM works when product is exceptional (passionate users), when client has means to engage with others, and when supported internally.

trusted communicators (does that map to one of the tipping point categories?) – subject masters, love product, tell others proactively, sought out by others.

WOM is mostly about voice (face to face or phone)

oh, hey, this like that guy that used to volunteer at the BG Clubs, the camera nut.

“friend” coupons. samples (what would a CE “sample” look like?).

be careful about internet coupons. 🙂

“tillamook park cleanup” — building a lot of enthusiasm among community advocates.

5 questions to decide whether to add WOM efforts

  1. current effort exceeding expectations? [no]
  2. is product unique/exceptional? [hmmmm]
  3. are people talking? (even negative is starting point.) [dunno]
  4. is there communication infrastructure? [not really]
  5. do we have passionate support of internal groups? [hmmmmm]

q: effectiveness of enewsletters? varies a lot, but you should use it if you have great info to share. too much blasting reduces effectiveness. way to include an “offer”? (student pricing at event?)

missed a question while making notes.

find programs that have most WOM and “invite a friend” — to sit in on a class or activity?

what are we doing that’s great? [awards, strong registration, kick-ass grads]
PCC was running a radio ad for CE, if you register early your friend could register half-price. how did that work for them?

q: disheartening info about reach. what about using testimonial approach in mainstream media “best of both worlds”? (is it best of both worlds? something to chew on for later.) not entirely dismissive: just not the best/only/most effective tool.

“if I were using new tools I would use the internet” ! and again with the blogs.

q: example of successful use of blog in educational setting? doesn’t have an example.  I should go find her and point her towards some of the resources I’ve been gathering.  he talks about influencing leaders, and research you can buy (!) — someone else in the audience talked about instructors using blogs.  woman talked about Susan G Komen offering expertise on breast cancer to answer questions on other people’s blogs.  (now THAT is a good idea.)

opening remarks & keynote

yes, the program is broken. (I noticed that yesterday; I almost pulled it apart, but stopped when C rolled his eyes.)

blah blah blah while I get my space setup.

and now the MC, who of course jokes about how they screwed up the program on purpose. ::rolls eyes::

“Education for All: Interrupting Poverty Barriers”

speaker was single mom who got it together with a start at Mt Hood CC.

“you know you need to know your audience”

family was migrant farm workers, cotton & fruit, moving from Arizona up through to WA. “houses that were condemned or should’ve been”

people in poverty are least likely to become education, continuing trend.

study in the 40s, replicated in 2000. 4 of five barriers diminished (geography, religion, race, gender (perhaps “problem” with boys in ed is more about race & poverty?)). some pretty egregious examples of educator attitudes re: race, altho it’s gotten better. no noticable progress on increased education among poor.

“who all’s talking to you about college?” complete silence followed by “don’t you know you’re at the alternative school?” from a student.

“you get an attitude from a lifetime of not having your needs met”

making information more known about financial aid. we could continue to do better on that.

(wow, my class on race, class & gender back at UPS gets me *something* 🙂 as in, I’m the only person in the room who learned anything in school about history of poverty in the US)

the meaning of school pictures in the context of poverty: the lack of personal history, no one cares. (we did almost always get the smallest possible set of pictures, when I was a kid.)

she’s the only person in her family who hasn’t been incarcerated (“and not because I haven’t broken the law”) — brother: “those two people in that great big house with all that stuff didn’t need it” 30k year/person for prison.

poor people interact with 4 groups of people who are making it: judicial people, educators, social service, health care…who are all trained not to get personal/close with the people they interact with. (mmmm…folks like Mom….)

most empowering thing to people in poverty is to learn about poverty.

350 families a day get their water shut off everyday in Portland.

the rotten teeth effect. (don’t get me started.)
ability to cope with social/personal problems (drugs, alcohol, child abuse) all stunted in cases of poverty.

women in poverty in US: same infant mortality rate as Malaysia.

structural causes of poverty.

basic literacy issues. personal story of the GREs, and those word comparison problems. (SATs were much the same, as I remember them. of course, I did absurdly well at them, but they don’t have much bearing on a whole hell of a lot.) brother is very well read, but can’t pronounce anything, and she used him as a resource to comprehend her texts. and the problem of phonetic spelling. (like Elizabeth!) and she used her daughter to help her take notes. (like me grammar-checking mom’s college papers.)

every country teaches it people what they need to belong. as explanation of buying shoes, phones, tvs, etc. vs other stuff that has an opportunity to increase long-term success. “might as well get it and we’ll figure out how to pay for it somehow”

problems finding research on generational poverty (vs immigrant, temporary, working-class) — most people studying are looking in from the outside.

her book: “See Poverty: Be the Difference” — stories, research, activities.

comparing dire/generational poverty to people’s perceptions of being poor, esp. temporary middle-class poverty. (which was my experience.) it seems like the big difference is whether a person knows people (well) who have benefitted from education.

what is the meaning of a “job”? horrible hard work that takes you away from your family vs. stability and financial success. a different kind of conversation, one that takes a lot more time.

68% of people in her research, when they deal with professionals, walk away not knowing what they’re supposed to do next. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

she keeps having trouble with her computer, but her talking doesn’t really need the visuals.

generational — working poor — immigrant — depression era — situational: differences in attitude, locus of control, internalization, barriers.

got $408 in welfare, $395 for rent. when she got evicted, was sent to money mgmt classes! wtf.

did exercise at Mt Hood, write down everything you do in a week, and then matches things from that list to professions.

professional titles are intimidating.

“you’ve got to become bilingual.” — from one of her college teachers. started with reading the paper. seems like the struggles with black english; having to go from a “home” language to middle class English. “siop”

her pilot group got housing, which was an important difference. (material reality matters a hell of a lot more than anything else, really.) build partnerships with orgs that do other things.

she had never heard a middle-class person’s life story. helped to externalize the poverty. it sounds like the approach was very much like my experience with getting out of depressive states: start where you are and take very small steps. way more help than you’d think someone should need. and recognizing visible improvement, no matter how small.

“human beings who stepped outside of their job description” (also VERY important point)

“the question is: did she get educated?”

the increasing class separation in America is going to send us to hell.

(find her site)

q: how do siblings regard her? a lot of research says you have to leave family behind, but she’s very close to them. 2 brothers have gotten BAs. lots of family have gone through exact same degrees; brings people into the comfort zone. other 3 can’t read & write, but want to. “education meant stress” (getting there on time, being right, wearing right clothes) seems a lot like other middle/upper-class attitudes with tearing people away from “less than” backgrounds.

q: how large a population is generational poverty? what’s the distribution? $19k+/year for family of 4, doesn’t include transportation, child care, health care as costs. (one estimate is it should be $30k) 37 million from census, could be double. “little katrinas going on all over the nation” data isn’t sorted that way.

q: what do you see that’s successful? [missed some of this because handouts were coming through] she has a poverty comprehension assessment tool.

q: what do we do to educate policy makers? she speaks regularly at an elite private school, asks about attitudes (pretty lousy) towards people in poverty, and those are who are going to be the policy makers & professionals.

the communications handout would be good to distribute through advising, financial aid, other front-line staff. outreach?

q: within families, how old are kids usually when they see their poverty, believing they don’t have any options? at all ages; shows progression of facial expressions in school pictures. terrible education story. (some teachers just suck, esp. with students who aren’t “good” students.) her son brings her kids in trouble all the time.